IMO human safety has always been the prime factor from the very beginning of the outbreak and will continue to be the prime driver behind what activities can reopen safely and what will remain closed. I am optimistic that science will catch up a provide an answer.
For 74. I agree. But I hope that “human safety and welfare considerations take into account the terrible consequences of the shut down, such as suicides, drug and alcohol use, domestic violence, lost jobs, lost businesses, depression, foregone cancer screenings and treatments, and so on. We need sports back now, spectators included. This can be done safely now.
We need sports back now, spectators included. This can be done safely now....
How can this be "done safely now"? IF you have the answer, I'm sure that the actual experts would love to know. There is NO baseball, NO basketball. NO hockey, NO MLL, NO NCAA sports, NO MAAC sports, NO high school sports, NO WBA events, NO movies, NO theaters, NO schools or churches open and so on because of the contagious COVID-19 pandemic. The intelligent thing to do is to stay closed until it is safe, especially spectator sports and it is still NOT safe. Safety has to come first and not bored sports fans. We don't "need sports back now". We need people to be safe and not get sick and spread the coronavirus. It is that simple and should be easy to understand.
IMO human safety has always been the prime factor from the very beginning of the outbreak and will continue to be the prime driver behind what activities can reopen safely and what will remain closed. I am optimistic that science will catch up a provide an answer.
For 74. I agree. But I hope that “human safety and welfare considerations take into account the terrible consequences of the shut down, such as suicides, drug and alcohol use, domestic violence, lost jobs, lost businesses, depression, foregone cancer screenings and treatments, and so on. We need sports back now, spectators included. This can be done safely now.
Disco the science is evolving (daily I might add) and is proving just the opposite as we get more info. Here is a link discussing how it is not just distance and cleanliness, but the amount of time spent in certain environments enhance transmission. - The longer you are in an environment that may contain the virus, the more likely it will be spread. www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/us/coronavirus-time-risk/index.html - Read a second article today from Fortune magazine that indicated the 6 foot rule could even be 27 feet in some instances. This disease is more contagious than a regular flu, specially with asymptomatic carriers.
IMO, we are in no way ready to get sports back now, especially with spectators. - Frustration and "cabin fever" should not push us to tempt fate. And, if you open it, people will not come. - Saw another report that showed as restaurants have reopened, the overwhelming majority of people are still staying home. - Studies show indoor transmission is also more probable than outdoor.
Bottom like, congested areas like public transit, airplanes, and yes, crowded arenas are not the place to be if you want to minimize your exposure. - I don't think this can truly be done safely unless people are vaccinated.
If you want to work on getting businesses and people back to work where you can reasonably control transmission, that is a noble effort. But sports is not one of them. - I think of the major sports, golf might be the first try with specific restrictions on spectators.
I'm with Stags74. Our hope is that science will catch up and provide an answer soon. - But it is a resurgence in the transmission that will sustain these horrible conditions or make them even worse.
Agree there are terrible consequences even beyond getting the virus. - Yes, businesses are taking a beating and people are hurting, have lost jobs and "sanity" in varying degrees. - But the decision should not be driven by restless, impatient, rabid NFL fans who ignorantly don't realize they could go home and pass this to a "high risk" loved one.
Why would you want to possibly put them in jeopardy and maybe even death? - There is no treatment for death the last I looked. - You can treat mental illness and substance abuse. You can place restraining orders on abusive spouses. - You can provide for individuals and small businesses who cannot sustain themselves and keep them safe and alive (yes there is a monetary cost) and we did that in the great depression.
I do believe part of the gap we have as a society is we never lived through the Great Depression or the Second World War. - This is a global equivalent or even worse, with both hitting us simultaneously.
IMO human safety has always been the prime factor from the very beginning of the outbreak and will continue to be the prime driver behind what activities can reopen safely and what will remain closed. I am optimistic that science will catch up a provide an answer.
For 74. I agree. But I hope that “human safety and welfare considerations take into account the terrible consequences of the shut down, such as suicides, drug and alcohol use, domestic violence, lost jobs, lost businesses, depression, foregone cancer screenings and treatments, and so on. We need sports back now, spectators included. This can be done safely now.
I agree with 74 that EVENTUALLY science will provide an answer. But unfortunately I'm afraid that may take quite awhile before that happens. So therefore I disagree with you (disco) in your statement that we can get spectators to sporting events right now, something that is not happening at the moment anyway. However if government could speed up the process of important stuff such as testing and contact tracing, and then you combine that with the general public continuing to be responsible in their actions (6' spacing, wearing masks indoors, etc.), well then maybe we could get to a point in the fall where SOME spectators could be allowed into some events. But the key word regarding the general public is they have to be RESPONSIBLE, and unfortunately there are always going to be a certain percentage of people who will go over the line in that regard, thereby threatening to ruin things for everyone else. It's kind of like when you drive on the turnpike where you have most people going at a reasonable speed, yet there always seems to be a few yahoos weaving in and out of traffic at speeds up to 100 miles per hour. (Now THAT is dangerous BTW). But my point is, in 6 months it is possible that we can show up for games in a controlled environment. Certainly not a sure thing however. Again as I stated earlier, my own choice at that time will be dictated by people I trust such as doctors and scientists (and NOT politicians). TBD, but patience is a virtue (as I see paulie has mentioned as something to be desired).
For what it is worth, as a retired research chemist I am still waiting to hear from reindeerfan what the 4 classes of of drugs that have been very effective at helping people with CoVid-19. Obviously even if they work somewhat they are only therapeutic and not a preventative like a vaccine. If one of them is hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, well good luck with that. One possible treatment that I have heard of but not seen in the popular press is Favipiravir which if a fairly simple molecule both in structure and scalability. It was approved in Japan since 2014 to treat influenza and other viral strains that don’t respond to other drugs. Phase III trials are going on in Japan . Other trials are under way in the US and also Italy and China.
For what it is worth, as a retired research chemist I am still waiting to hear from reindeerfan what the 4 classes of of drugs that have been very effective at helping people with CoVid-19. Obviously even if they work somewhat they are only therapeutic and not a preventative like a vaccine. If one of them is hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, well good luck with that. One possible treatment that I have heard of but not seen in the popular press is Favipiravir which if a fairly simple molecule both in structure and scalability. It was approved in Japan since 2014 to treat influenza and other viral strains that don’t respond to other drugs. Phase III trials are going on in Japan . Other trials are under way in the US and also Italy and China.
Well I hesitate to get into detail on this topic, because in today's world there are very closed minded people that want to say anything that doesn't have a double-blind three year clinical trial is unproven and untested and should not be talked about. At one time, every treatment is "unproven" but it does not mean early on that there was not significant evidence indicating use. It will be three years before we have meaningful long term trials on any COVID-19 treatment, for now we have to use common sense and experiential evidence to make the best treatment decisions.
Hydroxycholoroquine is the poster child of treatments that are attacked for lacking a double blind study. I am not necessarily a huge advocate of this drug because there will be better options. What I will say about it is, 1) It has been used effectively in South Korea, where they are achieving survival rates in line with the Flu, 2) it is a cheap readily available drug that is well suited for use in poorer nations that cannot afford an "on-patent" solution, 3) It has been approved as a treatment option in other nations, and 4) there was sufficient evidence in double blind clinical trials done with COVID-2 to suggest that it would be worth trying this treatment should there be an outbreak of another strain of coronavirus.
But regarding your specific question, there is evidence to show that there are 4 classes of medicine that can help most people in normal health recover from corona virus. Everyone focuses on 1) the anti-virals which do hold promise. Both Favilavir and Remdesivir have been approved by the health ministries in other nations(like China) as a COVID-19 Treatment. But in addition to anti-virals we have many tried and true existing drugs that will help the sick get better. These are 2) drugs that interfere with the virus’s reproduction like the Azithromycin, zinc sulfate, and antimalarials and amebicides(including: Hydroxycholoroquine / Chloroquine Phosphate), 3) Ace2 inhibitors like Linospril that block the cytokine storm that is the primary cause of most Corona Virus deaths, and 4) drugs that facilitate oxygen exchange like Acetazolamide.
This is all I plan to say about this topic as this is a basketball forum not a medical website. Anyone with an internet connection can do their own reading and make their own determinations if perhaps these classes of medication might be beneficial in the treatment of a particular medical condition. I am not providing anyone with medical advice in this post.
I was once very sick and was told by doctors there is no cure and I would probably never be well again. If I waited for the FDA to approve a treatment, I would probably still be very sick. Instead I read numerous research papers about my condition and learned that the solutions were out there but there was no incentive for anyone to advocate using existing cheap off-label medicine to treat people. I used such a treatment and got better in 2 weeks after being ill for more than a year. I encourage anyone that is ill to be their own best resource and to seek their own treatment options.
I hope all stag fans stay healthy and don't have to consider any covid-19 treatment options. Happy Memorial Day!
Last Edit: May 22, 2020 15:40:38 GMT -5 by reindeerfan
I hope all Stag fans stay healthy and don't have to consider any Covid-19 treatment options. Happy Memorial Day!
Well said rf. Glad to hear that you are well. All the other stuff is interesting but way beyond me. A very Happy and Healthy Memorial Day to you and your family too. Go Stags.
Not to belabor a point but one can most likely remove hydroxychloroquine from the list of four based on the recent report in the Lancet. Based on testing with 96000 people not only did HCQ not prove beneficial with or without an added antibiotic but deaths were increased by a tremendous percentage .
Here’s where some of you guys are going wrong. You are considering only the advise of medical doctors, and not all medical doctors. Physicians like Dr Fauci sole concern is illness resulting directly from the virus, not the collateral damage. Damage that is very real. Such as substance abuse which you, Paulie, so casually dismiss You claim that it is treatable FYI, the recovery rate for Cobid infection is much, much higher than the recovery rate for addiction to substances. And in case you are not aware, alcoholism and drug addiction are progressive, FATAL diseases. Suicide, also Covid lockdown collateral damage. is also fatal And there is so much more loss that has resulted from the overly restrictive lock downs. Not the least of which is our loss of liberty, which many have given their lives for You cannot take all the risk out of potentially dangerous situations. Nash, you talk about dangerous driving Hundreds if not thousands of lives would be saved every year if we reduced the speed limit on highways to 15 mph. But we won’t, because to do so would not be reasonable. We allow some degree of risk. There are many that argue, in connection with Covid. that we keep things closed down til there is NO risk. Til there is a vaccine, etc. That’s not reasonable. Folks ought to be allowed to assess risk for themselves. It’s a liberty thing Back to my original point. WBA will me the only option available that will allow fans to distance. And this may be the case for several years. The new arena, should it ever be built, will be too small to accommodate the concerns of many. I know that there is at least one guy in this board who’s head will explode when this becomes a reality, but I don’t see that any alternative exists
Here’s where some of you guys are going wrong. You are considering only the advise of medical doctors, and not all medical doctors. Physicians like Dr Fauci sole concern is illness resulting directly from the virus, not the collateral damage. Damage that is very real. Such as substance abuse which you, Paulie, so casually dismiss You claim that it is treatable FYI, the recovery rate for Cobid infection is much, much higher than the recovery rate for addiction to substances. And in case you are not aware, alcoholism and drug addiction are progressive, FATAL diseases. Suicide, also Covid lockdown collateral damage. is also fatal And there is so much more loss that has resulted from the overly restrictive lock downs. Not the least of which is our loss of liberty, which many have given their lives for You cannot take all the risk out of potentially dangerous situations. Nash, you talk about dangerous driving Hundreds if not thousands of lives would be saved every year if we reduced the speed limit on highways to 15 mph. But we won’t, because to do so would not be reasonable. We allow some degree of risk. There are many that argue, in connection with Covid. that we keep things closed down til there is NO risk. Til there is a vaccine, etc. That’s not reasonable. Folks ought to be allowed to assess risk for themselves. It’s a liberty thing Back to my original point. WBA will me the only option available that will allow fans to distance. And this may be the case for several years. The new arena, should it ever be built, will be too small to accommodate the concerns of many. I know that there is at least one guy in this board who’s head will explode when this becomes a reality, but I don’t see that any alternative exists
Disco, I am not casually dismissing anything. They are all life threatening conditions. But one will kill you within in 30 days, especially if you are in a high risk category.
But getting close contact sports in packed arenas is ludicrous and reckless at this point.
This pandemic is unlike anything the world has experience as is the nature of the disease and how it is transmitted. We still don't have all the facts.
I'd like to see the study that says people went into severe depression or committed suicide because they couldn't attend a Stags game at the WBA. This is not an "unnecessary lockdown".
Yes, we need to do our best to get businesses running, people working and essentials back but we need to pick our spots and do it prudently, not recklessly.
Last Edit: May 31, 2020 8:27:50 GMT -5 by paulie74
I'd like to see the study that says I people went into severe depression or committed suicide because they couldn't attend a Stags game at the WBA. This is not an "unnecessary lockdown". Yes, we need to do our best to get businesses running, people working and essentials back but we need to pick our spots and do it prudently, not recklessly.....
Well said paulie!
We need sports back now, spectators included. This can be done safely now....Back to my original point. WBA will me the only option available that will allow fans to distance. And this may be the case for several years. The new arena, should it ever be built, will be too small to accommodate the concerns of many. I know that there is at least one guy in this board who’s head will explode when this becomes a reality, but I don’t see that any alternative exists.
Despite what an I LUV Bridgeport fan believes and dreams, sports are not needed back now with spectators nor can this be done safely now especially for Stag fans. Fairfield University's much needed Convocation Center will be built albeit probably delayed a bit because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Like it or not but the home of Stag Basketball will be on campus where it belongs and not off campus in a mostly empty 9,000 seat hockey rink arena in downtown Bridgeport.
Here’s where some of you guys are going wrong. You are considering only the advise of medical doctors, and not all medical doctors. Physicians like Dr Fauci sole concern is illness resulting directly from the virus, not the collateral damage. Damage that is very real. Such as substance abuse which you, Paulie, so casually dismiss You claim that it is treatable FYI, the recovery rate for Cobid infection is much, much higher than the recovery rate for addiction to substances. And in case you are not aware, alcoholism and drug addiction are progressive, FATAL diseases. Suicide, also Covid lockdown collateral damage. is also fatal And there is so much more loss that has resulted from the overly restrictive lock downs. Not the least of which is our loss of liberty, which many have given their lives for You cannot take all the risk out of potentially dangerous situations. Nash, you talk about dangerous driving Hundreds if not thousands of lives would be saved every year if we reduced the speed limit on highways to 15 mph. But we won’t, because to do so would not be reasonable. We allow some degree of risk. There are many that argue, in connection with Covid. that we keep things closed down til there is NO risk. Til there is a vaccine, etc. That’s not reasonable. Folks ought to be allowed to assess risk for themselves. It’s a liberty thing Back to my original point. WBA will me the only option available that will allow fans to distance. And this may be the case for several years. The new arena, should it ever be built, will be too small to accommodate the concerns of many. I know that there is at least one guy in this board who’s head will explode when this becomes a reality, but I don’t see that any alternative exists
Well my turnpike traffic point was not to suggest any lowering of the speed limit, but rather it was to reference the reckless activity of a few that threaten the overall health of others. And in connection to that point this Covid problem is similar. If everyone would take more personal responsibility for their actions, then we could move more quickly out of the (now semi-lockdown) situation that we currently are in. But as far as my overall point, actually I am kind of in the middle relative to what you are suggesting (I think) and others such as Paulie and maybe 79. For instance you suggest that spectators should be allowed into sports events RIGHT NOW. IMO (and that's all it is), that would be reckless, dangerous and would probably lead to even more problems in a few months when the expected 2nd and maybe 3rd wave of the virus returns in a few months. OTOH my own personal preference would probably not keep me from attending a basketball contest (Stag game of course) if I was of the belief that it was REASONABLY okay to do so based upon my interpretation of the situation as I see it at that time. OF COURSE Dr. Fauci has a point of view from a medical standpoint, and OF COURSE there are other doctors whose specialty involves mental health who will come at you from a different angle and therefore a different recommendation. Does that mean either is wrong? Absolutely not. That's why this problem is so unprecedented and impossible to fix with a one size fits all.
Finally, concerning the WBA, the Convocation Center and where the Stags will play in the future, well for the next couple of years, yes the Arena makes sense, and that as we know is how it is going to be. But this Covid thing will become much less of a problem in time, and the fact is the university needs this building to keep moving forward into the modern era. Therefore I sincerely hope it does indeed gets built even if it has to be delayed a year or two.
Here’s where some of you guys are going wrong. You are considering only the advise of medical doctors, and not all medical doctors. Physicians like Dr Fauci sole concern is illness resulting directly from the virus, not the collateral damage. Damage that is very real. Such as substance abuse which you, Paulie, so casually dismiss You claim that it is treatable FYI, the recovery rate for Cobid infection is much, much higher than the recovery rate for addiction to substances. And in case you are not aware, alcoholism and drug addiction are progressive, FATAL diseases. Suicide, also Covid lockdown collateral damage. is also fatal And there is so much more loss that has resulted from the overly restrictive lock downs. Not the least of which is our loss of liberty, which many have given their lives for You cannot take all the risk out of potentially dangerous situations. Nash, you talk about dangerous driving Hundreds if not thousands of lives would be saved every year if we reduced the speed limit on highways to 15 mph. But we won’t, because to do so would not be reasonable. We allow some degree of risk. There are many that argue, in connection with Covid. that we keep things closed down til there is NO risk. Til there is a vaccine, etc. That’s not reasonable. Folks ought to be allowed to assess risk for themselves. It’s a liberty thing Back to my original point. WBA will me the only option available that will allow fans to distance. And this may be the case for several years. The new arena, should it ever be built, will be too small to accommodate the concerns of many. I know that there is at least one guy in this board who’s head will explode when this becomes a reality, but I don’t see that any alternative exists
Disco, I am not casually dismissing anything. They are all life threatening conditions. But one will kill you within in 30 days, especially if you are in a high risk category.
But getting close contact sports in packed arenas is ludicrous and reckless at this point.
This pandemic is unlike anything the world has experience as is the nature of the disease and how it is transmitted. We still don't have all the facts.
I'd like to see the study that says people went into severe depression or committed suicide because they couldn't attend a Stags game at the WBA. This is not an "unnecessary lockdown".
Yes, we need to do our best to get businesses running, people working and essentials back but we need to pick our spots and do it prudently, not recklessly.
I think that's basically what's been happening and that will turn out to be a good thing in the long run. But as far as people attending a Stag game at the WBA, actually I would take an opposite view. Based upon team performance recently, the fact they couldn't attend a game might SAVE the severe depression or possible suicide that they might have had if they DID attend that contest. So therefore there's a silver lining here, right?