Regardless of the position, there is how I see the battle for playing time being distributed. Some of its known, the rest is wide open.
The Known (150mpg) ---------------- 1. Barrow - 27mpg. He averaged that last year, and has averaged that for his career..... pretty solid guess 2. Amadou - 25mpg. Up from 21.7. Foul trouble due to aggressive/physical play will keep him around 25mpg 3. MarcusG - 25mpg. Up from 20.7. Could go a lot higher, if game blossoms as expected 4. Coleman - 25mpg. Up from 11.7, but he was injured/rehabing. Started last 2 games and avered 26.5mpg..... that could be the number if he starts 5-6. Starting 2 guards combined - 47mpg. 2 have got to start, could be different each game. If we rotate 5 guards, that will be a disaster
Wide open (50mpg) -------------- 7. MalcolmG - 15-25mpg. 8. Smith - 5-15mpg 9-11. Bench guards 15-35mpg combined. Could be distributed very unevenly
If we never go with a 3 guard line-up, Malcolm gets 25mpg. If we go with a 3 guard line-up, more minutes for guards. If we are struggling with outside shooting, Smith gets more minutes. I cannot see the known piece varying too much different than what is above. If thats the case, we looking at a 6-7 man rotation.
Post by nashvillestag on Oct 9, 2013 10:35:09 GMT -5
Certainly fair guesses JS. However not knowing how really good some of our new guards are I do think there is room for a lot of variances in how the minutes will be distributed. And BTW you are right, a 5 guard rotation would not be very good. But in running into a good source last night who has witnessed some workouts, this person has reinforced a position which he told me about a few months ago in that he feels Lincoln Davis could have a very important role with the team this season. If this becomes true that would probably mean some 3 guard lineups. But then again with the obvious strength of the forwards it's hard to see the benefits of limiting the basic time that you have guessed for Mo, Coleman, Marcus, Malcomb and Amadou. Yet I certainly hope Lincoln IS that good! And maybe a couple of the other guards too. More GOOD problems that Sydney would have to deal with, right?
If the report on Lincoln Davis comes to fruition, that would be great news. And he could be that "Special" guard we need. His skill set does point him more to a 3G.... that would not constrain his stengths of getting on the wing in transition and using his natural talents.
However, if we play a lot of a 3G lineup (50% of the time), then the numbers show that the PT of Barrow, Coleman, Amamdou and Malcolm would likley be reduced, along with the SF duo of Marcus and Steve Smith. However, I do think Marcus Gilbert is that good that we can see him play both SF and PF. And can you visualize Davis at the 3, and Marcus at the 4, running the fastbreak from the wing and finishing with an above the rim Slam???
I am a big proponent of a 3 guard line-up as I feel most Good Mid Majors and MAAC Champions play a player with Guard-like skills at the 3. But it will take a "special" player to take PT away from Marcus at the 3. I hope Lincoln Davis can do it. I also think that Steve Smith is a special shooter, and should get his minutes at the 3.
I wonder if previous MAAC success with 3-guard lineups is just a function of the fact that mid-majors usually lack a stable of quality big men. It's rare to have the Stag situation with so many good frontcourt players vying for minutes. Amadou and Malcolm sound like they are on the way to being special players; add in the experience and quality of a Mo Barrow, the upside of Coleman Johnson and a 6-11 shot blocker in Malcolm....that's 5 deep up front, and every one of them can play. Not many teams have that. When we play 3 guards, some good talent will be on the bench.
79, I think the reason a lot of Mid Majors play with 3 Guards, is they cannot recruit 6-7 SF's with superior perimeter skills like the High Majors can (Siena's Edwin Ubilies was the exception). Bottom line is that ever since the 3-point shot was instituted, then most offenses required 3 perimeter players in order to take advantage of the 3-point shot. With a strong frontcourt, it does seem that we will play less 3-guard line-up this year. The last years we played 10-15mpg with a 3-guard line-up
Ty, You right.... A lot of PT for Davis does not necessarily mean we play a 3 guard line-up. However, I think that Davis could be a hell of finisher as a wing on transition, on the alley-oop. I just feel his best position is the 3. But if he also can Shoot, Pass, and setup others in the half court, then 2G could be the option.,
I think that the thing that will determine PT has yet to established on the hardwood . First, who can play PG and next who can score from The outside with some consistency. Our outside game hasn't been good. I feel we can get some inside points and put backs but we need an outside threat to loosen the D.
I think that the thing that will determine PT has yet to established on the hardwood . First, who can play PG and next who can score from The outside with some consistency. Our outside game hasn't been good. I feel we can get some inside points and put backs but we need an outside threat to loosen the D.
Baron, you're right, there is still a great mystery about how things will evolve. And you're also correct in stating that our outside game has been generally poor recently. But I do think we will see a great improvement in 3-point shooting this season (based upon general reports about some of our new players (including Grennan). However the key for these same players will have to be how well they handle, pass, play defense, etc., and also how quickly they are able to adapt to the college game given their lack of experience. Indeed if this freshmen and transfer class is a good one we may be looking at a nice reloading of the success of the past few seasons with obviously the hope that the job can get finished very soon, something the previous "Cooley core" was not able to accomplish. But even if they are good as a group, I do feel there may be some growing pains this year. I certainly hope the process of assimilation isn't a long one.
Yes, its a great mystery on who the guards will be...... and if we play 2 guards or 3 guards at a time. But no doubt we have more shooting options at guard. And of course Steve Smith is probably the best shooter of the lot, and he is not a guard. There are a lot of expecations for our frontcourt as we have 4 experienced player.... Barrow, Coleman, Marcus and Amadou..... and they will have to carry the team early on.
Will we have anybody average double figures? Don't know, and it's not that important. But what is important is that when it comes to crunch time we have have some players that want the ball and can make big shots and big plays (passes, rebounds, blocked shots, and defensive stops) to win games.
I wonder if previous MAAC success with 3-guard lineups is just a function of the fact that mid-majors usually lack a stable of quality big men. It's rare to have the Stag situation with so many good frontcourt players vying for minutes. Amadou and Malcolm sound like they are on the way to being special players; add in the experience and quality of a Mo Barrow, the upside of Coleman Johnson and a 6-11 shot blocker in Malcolm....that's 5 deep up front, and every one of them can play. Not many teams have that. When we play 3 guards, some good talent will be on the bench.
I think that the thing that will determine PT has yet to established on the hardwood . First, who can play PG and next who can score from The outside with some consistency. Our outside game hasn't been good. I feel we can get some inside points and put backs but we need an outside threat to loosen the D.
I think Baron72 and Stag79 have some insight on this.. Its easier for midmajors to recruit shorter kids that can shoot than to find a quantity of quality big men. High percentage outside shooting is usually the only way midmajors can take down the bigger schools who have frontcourt depth. And to echo Baron, the first guy to consistantly hit the outside shot gets some playing time .
And to echo Baron, the first guy to consistantly hit the outside shot gets some playing time .
Agree that we need some shooters to emerge, especially at the 2G. However, if shooting was the only criteria then Steve Smith would certainly be starting. Don't think he will beat out Marcus at the 3, Coleman at the 4, Amadou at the 4/5, or Malcolm at the 5...... at least not right of way. But, Smith will get minutes somewhere on the court.
But I do feel that combo that we play in the backcourt has to have the proper Balance between Ballhandling, Passing, Shooting, Defense and being able to Create off the Dribble. Hopefully our starting guards will be great at all 5 aspects of the game. If not, then the combo of both guards cannot have the same weakness, then that will not be good. I hope we have one of the guards be stronger in the Ballhandling/Passing, and the other stonger in Shooting. They both should be able to Defend and Create of the Dribble.
Post by nashvillestag on Oct 11, 2013 11:34:02 GMT -5
Of course it's great to have some great shooters who can hit from long range at any time. But in order for them to excel you have to have other players who through their dribbling, passing, and threat to score themselves, can serve as the conduit for getting those shooteers the open look to get the high percentage shot. So yes, a great setup man along with at least a couple of great shooters, as well of course with an inside threat can become a lethal combination to stop for the opposition. I hope the makeup of the team will lead to this type of offense. However if there is not one particular player that can break people down and create space for others (like Needham), the other way to get shooters like Marcus Gilbert and Smith their shots is through the offensive system that the coach likes to run. I hope there is enough talent on this team where individuals can break down the defense with the dribble-drive and pass without the need for Sydney to have to run too much of his Princeton sets to score points, as this style can sometimes lead to a lot of passes which in turn slow the game down. And when the game slows down you sometimes have low scoring games (Manhattan) if the team is not executing properly. So we'll see. I have a feeling that you will see a lot of combination between the two styles, with hopefully the talent coming through to speed things up as the season plays out.
Post by reindeerfan on Oct 11, 2013 21:00:26 GMT -5
I think the key is having what some people call chemistry, what others might call putting people on the floor that make each other better. Did we have a great point guard playing alongside with Shannon Bowman and Greg Francis. Not really. We had Bowman who would hit 60% of his shots if you didn't double team him and Francis a guard who consistantly hit his shot. Add Shame Miller to that team who hit 45% of his three point shots and you had a balanced offense and solid inside out game without a point guard that really created offense or a dominent Center. A true princeton offense is built on playing 5 guys that can move without the ball, shoot from anywhere on the floor, and that are each effective passers. It thrives on creating mismatches (a center than can hit the outside shot or a guard that can post up for layups against another teams smaller guards. We have the potential for those elements on this team. So I feel the point guard discussion is overemphasized. Yes a good point guard would help this team but short of that its going to be about putting the best combination of players on the floor. We had guy the last 2 years that was supposed to be a good point guard (wade) and we didn't score. A point guard without shooters is a losing combination but good shooters can win without a point guard.
Don't know, and it's not that important. But what is important is that when it comes to crunch time we have have some players that want the ball and can make big shots and big plays (passes, rebounds, blocked shots, and defensive stops) to win games. 